Spotlight On Podcast
Spotlight On Podcast
Spotlight On with Tim Farazmand, NED & Advisor, Co-Founder of PCB Partners
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In this episode of Spotlight On, Nicholas Barton is joined by Tim Farazmand, Co-Founder of PCB Partners, and an experienced NED & Advisory board member.
Tim discusses why assessing risk, return, and measurable impact is the new industry standard, explains how B Corp certification signals quality, and why pursuing social goals can actually strengthen a business's culture and resilience without sacrificing returns.
We explore the "Three Ps and an E" Framework, Tim’s tactical approach to vetting investments: People, Products, Projections, and Exit - always prioritising people first.
This episode also addresses the realities of becoming a Chair or NED, why CEOs often struggle with the transition, and how boards can support leadership through coaching and strategic boundaries.
Welcome And Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Spotlight on, the Must Listen podcast series where visionary leaders, global executives, trolleblazing entrepreneurs, and top-tier experts come together to share their inspiring stories and tackle the hottest issues facing businesses today. Brought to you by the Bart Partnership, an award-winning global talent solution organization, we specialise in executive search, independent consulting, and consulting solutions from strategy through to execution. Our mission is to help businesses accelerate their growth by connecting them with world-class strategy and transformation talent. Tune in and join us as we shine a spotlight on the game changers and thought leaders who are shaping the future of business. Welcome to Spotlight On. Today I'm joined by Tim Farrisman, a seasoned and exceptional chair and NED with a private equity background. Tim's been in the market in the industry now for nearly 40 years. 12 years at Lloyd's Development Capital, former chair of British Venture Capital Association, chair of Palatine Private Equity Impact Fund, chair of the Corporate Finance Advisory PCB, recently stepped down from the board of British Business Bank. I'll stop in a second, I'm getting there. Board member of Pantheon International and BSVT, advisory board member of Beechbrook Capital, Batalia Capital, and GK Strashy. And you're building a house at the same time at the moment. Thanks for joining us today. It's really good to have you here. Thank you. I mean, just talk us through your career. I mean, uh, you know, that's a hell of a career to get into. Um, you've always been associated with investment with private equity from the start. What what first drew you into that?
SPEAKER_00Well, it was it was good fortune or good luck, really. I I left university and joined IBM. Right. Um, and spent four actually very enjoyable years there. Um, but it was a very paternal organization in those days, and and it was a time-served organisation as well in those days. And yeah, when you're in the early 20s, very ambitious, you think you're better than you are, want to be moved on more quickly than you are. And um I just got very itchy feet. Um, and so I was looking outside. I uh after after three years, I nearly left them to join the music industry. Right. Which would have been a different career altogether. Okay, because you have a you have a secret passion for reggae music. I have a huge passion for all sorts of music, reggae in particular. Yeah, no, no, very well, we could do another podcast on that issue. Absolutely. Um, but then having turned down that role in the music industry a year later, literally reading the uh job uh adverts in the back of the Sunday Times when that that such a thing existed and saw this opportunity for a business in venture capital called 3I, I had no idea what it was, but the actually the text was very compelling. So I applied on spec, and as I went through the interviewing process, got to understand a little bit more about what that was. I thought actually this is gonna be really good fun. So I left IBM on a Friday night and joined 3I on a Monday morning, and and it sounds a bit twee, but went from selling computers to selling money in the space of 48 hours. And so that was it a long time ago. And you got hooked. I got hooked and never left.
SPEAKER_01And you're still hooked now, you're still as passionate. I mean, you are actively involved. Yeah, yeah. Um, like unbelievably so actually, in terms of how I don't know. I mean, I thought I was busy, but I mean you you really are full up with stuff at the moment, aren't you?
SPEAKER_00It is. I mean, it I mean, I love business, and yeah, what does that mean? Uh I love working with the management teams in business, right? And that's for me, is is all it's it's addictive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I have been so fortunate to work with some fabulous teams throughout those 35, getting on towards 40 years now. Yeah. Um, and that's what keeps me hooked and keeps me interested. You know, it's just some and those those teams you inevitably, because of the nature of our honesty, you work with for a in a very intense way for a limited period of time, three, four, five, six years. Yeah. But actually, you know, you make lifelong friends.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say it has a lasting impact on that.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. You keep so so though those those teams I've been fortunate enough to work with over the years have remained pals to this day and keep in regular contact with, become family friends and so on. So, yeah, no, it's just been a privilege.
How Private Equity Has Changed
SPEAKER_01When you think about the last, as you say, nearly 40 years now. I mean, you know, the private acting industry, you'd argue, has become more prominent over the last five to ten years, really become the driving force behind the economy to a point. How how have you seen it change in in that time from your perspective?
Impact Investing And B Corp Signals
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's it's a completely different industry to the one I joined. I mean, by almost every measure, scale, geographical reach, um maturity of businesses that that are invested in. Um it's just very different. But for me, and I think again, you know I'm very passionate about this. In relatively recent time, the last decade or so, one of the most positive changes has been the development of impact. Yeah. And the whole focus around impact investing, and and what is the impact of of the investments that you make. And one thing that has well is changing, and I think will definitely change in my in my lifetime is the whole look at every business not just on a risk return basis, but a risk return and impact basis. So talk about that. So that the definition of impact, yeah, what is that? Just to be clear. The impact is yeah, what hopefully positive social or environmental output does that business that you're backing have?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and certainly with my work with Palatine, where I chair the impact fund there, we will, you know, there's the proportion of businesses we can look to invest in is limited by those that will make either a very positive social and or environmental impact, and which we can measure and actually demonstrate back to our investors that we're having that positive societal impact as well as um you know delivering the returns that they want. So we're not compromising on returns. In fact, we think we're backing better quality businesses by by by finding those sort of opportunities.
SPEAKER_01Now, I mean we are you know the Barton Partnership's B Corp registered, right? And we're very proud of that. How does that factor? Is that is that a measure for you?
SPEAKER_00It is it's it is increasingly now. I mean, I think I think certainly within the Impact Fund, the businesses we back are either B Corps when we back them or we help them. We're a B Corp ourselves, right. Uh or we help them on their journey to to get that accreditation. Right. That's not the be all and end all, but it's really, you know, it's a point of reference. It's a point of reference, absolutely. And it's not, as you as you'll know, it's not something that's easily easily gained. It's a lot of hard work to achieve that accreditation.
SPEAKER_01So when you think about the difference between a good and a great investment, I'm sure there's a long list of answers to give, but I mean the sort of top three, top five sort of views on that. What's the differential between a good and great investment these days?
SPEAKER_00Sure. I mean, top three would be all management, yeah, to be blunt. And it's that's one truism that hasn't changed throughout the whole. I mean, a great management team can clearly deliver a really good outcome with even a dare I say a mediocre business or in a business that's not in a high growth sector, um, a poor team can screw up a great business. Yeah. So that that is key. Um so the the one thing that's always kept me focused in anything I look at, and it's uh again something I I share with as many people as I can is is the focus on what I call the three Ps and an E. Yeah. And that's people, products, projections, and exit. But people first and foremost, if there isn't a team there that I rate that that I can trust to deliver what they say they can, they may need some additions and some support, which you get their buying to. But if that if it's not there, then I don't care what the business does, how profitable it is, I'm not interested. It's got to happen.
SPEAKER_01So you you would discount the opportunity to invest or buy that company based on the existing management team and not perhaps the art of the possible in terms of installing a new management team that could take the business forward.
SPEAKER_00There are there are times when you have to affect a lot of change. Yes. And and to be fair, there are um other other people participating within the private equity industry that see management more as a commodity than I do. Right. Uh and that's worked, so it's it's not been an unsuccessful referee, but for me, you need the kernel of a team that may need enhancing, may need development. Um, and it's down to leadership. If I really, if I haven't got a CEO who inspires me and more to the point will inspire the team that they're working with, then I have to think long and hard. It may be that yet that that CEO is very open about only being in situ for a limited period of time. They want their they don't want to be there necessarily for the whole journey. Yeah. But as long as they recognise that and you can work with them to find succession for them, then then that that's that's the focus for me.
SPEAKER_01And the definition of a great management team, cohesiveness, yeah, communication, what else do you look forward to?
SPEAKER_00Right. Uh absolutely integrity. Um I think um really good uh communication skills both between themselves, within the business, and with their client base and other stakeholders. Um I think an ability to develop flex you know show flexibility to adapt to adapt to changing situation, yeah. Um to have a good strategic view of where they want to drive the business to. So there's a whole combination of factors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you feel that there is when someone comes in, when an investor comes in, yeah, perhaps there's a resistance to change from the or actually are they receptive and excited about the opportunity?
SPEAKER_00I think that the right teams are are receptive.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Definitely. So um but sometimes it you need to take them on that journey with you and understand what what what what what great can look like if they're not there then yet. But but you can definitely the right teams understand that and and want to embrace that.
SPEAKER_01And do you feel that I mean again there's this stigma with private equity coming in that the pressure ramps up, it all becomes about the numbers. Have you taken that approach in your career? Like the again, this this you know, as I say, this image of private equity is like, oh my god, that you know, now private equity owned or backed. You know, the pressure's gonna be we've got someone on the board now that's just gonna be sitting there saying, talk about the numbers, talk about numbers, talk about numbers. Has that been your approach when you've looked at it?
SPEAKER_00I hope it's not been my approach. And and and actually that's one again coming back to what you asked about earlier, that's one big change I've seen you know during my career in the industry. It was all about the numbers at the start, but and then it doesn't do the numbers stack up. Um, and dare I say it looking to drive efficiencies out of the business, that was the sort of you know, the the initial take with private equity. Then the the the smarter operators look to see how they could grow, help the team grow the top line and and and and do that. Yeah. And what staggered me for years, and I like to think I embraced this from pretty early on in my career, was the most valuable asset within the business was the team.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you diligence them and get a sense of their capabilities, their um compatibilities, but then you do nothing about investing in the team. Yeah. And that's the thing that staggered me. That you'd somehow a management team that were for, as it were, fit for purpose on the day you invested, could double, treble the size of the business either organically or inorganically, and not need any help and support to do that. Yeah. And I think what the whole industry now understands that, and I and I say I hope I've been a bit at the forefront of that is the need to invest in the team to help them develop, help them broaden their skill base and experience and and open their minds to other opportunities. So that's absolutely fundamental.
Building A Portfolio Chair Career
SPEAKER_01But also perhaps bringing people to complement and enhance, definitely. Right, and leave the door open for that opportunity as well. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I we always say clearly, obviously, that you know having the right people in the right positions at the right time is critical for success. Um, but that CEO position is perhaps the most crucial, as you say, the kernel one. We'll we'll come back to that. Um let's talk about you again. Um, because again, you you've got a phenomenal career, obviously. Uh your move into a portfolio career. What what prompted that transition? Obviously, Lawyers Development Capital LDC was your last, what I would say, full-time gig, right?
SPEAKER_00That's correct, yeah. No, well, I it was really it was I was inspired by the the chairs that I'd worked with uh throughout my uh investment career. And I was and I've worked with some brilliant chairs who are still friends today. I had breakfast with a chair I'd worked with on a number of occasions yesterday morning. Yeah, and I'd learnt so much as well as an investor by working with really, really smart chair people. Yeah, and I thought I want to put that learning into practice. Okay. Um, and so I I I gave my colleagues, senior colleagues at LDC plenty of notice. I I told them two years ahead of me when he stepped down again with succession planning in mind, yeah. That's what I wanted to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The quid pro quo was I wanted to be able to take on one or two external roles whilst I was still full-time with LDC. So I didn't wake up it was actually 20 on the 1st of January 2016 with an empty diary scratching my head about what do I do now. Quite and and that worked very well. So I took on a couple of roles, so I had I had to get out of bed. Yes. And then and there, isn't it? That purpose, etc. Exactly, and planning that transition, it's it's critical. And and also not being over anxious about just taking something that someone offers you. It's gotta be right for you, it's gotta be right for the business that you're gonna work with.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I I don't have I made mistakes, I'm sure I have in the last 11 years, but I have seen others make really serious mistakes where they've taken an opportunity because they felt the need to take something on. Just to have that transition. Which which wasn't right for them.
SPEAKER_01Let's come back to it because that's a really important topic. Uh, just talk to me then about what you've learnt uh to become as as effective as you are. What what what are some of the key qualities that you think are essential for a good chair or non-exec?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean you uh you've you've absolutely got to be a great listener. Right. You've got you've got to be a good communicator. Um you've got to understand the the need for a clear strategy and to bring bring the team with you on that journey on the strategy. Yeah. You've got to understand how you can measure how you're performing on that journey.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You've you've got to be working with a cohesive team, you've got to that can create the right culture that inspires the rest of the rest of the team in the business. So there's a whole host of things you need.
SPEAKER_01And that's challenging because you've gone from being an operator where you're almost telling someone what to do. Rolling sleeves up, yeah, to someone now, as you say, that needs to listen and guide and mentor. That that's not an easy transition, is it?
SPEAKER_00No, it's not. It's not, and you have to be and it's not, it's definitely not a one-size-fits-all. Yeah. Each team, each CEO you work with, you have to adjust accordingly.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, but it's it's it's it's just been such a great time. And and I I I mean there were three things I promised myself that I'd do when I when I when I embarked on this. One was only work with people I enjoy working with. Yeah. And it's again, that sounds a bit of cliche, but it's the privilege of the plural role that you you don't feel, as I said, you shouldn't feel compelled to take on just any role. So work on a role where you actually feel this is a team I'm going to really enjoy working with. And I don't think it's been a morning where I've woken up in the last 11 years thinking, oh goodness, I made a mistake. Goodness, it's that team today.
SPEAKER_01So have you discounted great businesses based on poor leadership?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, their opportunities I've just known wouldn't wouldn't work. It was it would have been a car crash. Yeah. So so so that that that that's key. Secondly, is well, you definitely think you can have some value. Yeah. Not that anybody would want me for a titular role, but you've really got to see actually, I think my experience or skill base or network or combination can really add value to that that particular opportunity. Yeah. And then the final thing, which so those two elements I think a lot of people adapt adopt. But the the one thing that I I've also learnt is actually also recognising, going back to your role backing the right people at the right time, that you've outlived your usefulness in a role. Yes. Before the person, to be blunt, who's probably paying says is saying, Well, actually, Tim, I don't think she's working. Yeah. So be aware, yeah, be alert. Yeah. And then you can have the adult conversation, which I've had a number of times in the last uh last period of time where I've said, Look, when when I joined the business, we were in here, and I think the skills I had and where what was needed was right, but now we've moved to a different position.
SPEAKER_01But when you start when you start a relationship, when you start an advisor, chair or NED, do you do you define a cadence for you with them? Is there a sort of an SLA, as it were, that you sort of set that helps you understand if you're adding value beyond just giving advice and having conversations? How does how does a chair or NED know if they're actually working and doing the right thing?
SPEAKER_00No, it's a it's a good question. And and I'm I've never, as it were, put a formal SLE down, but I think you do carry it around in the mark in your mind about what what does good look like? Am I actually delivering here? Is the business delivering here? Is it is it working? Yeah. So absolutely you have that um Because they're paying for your experience. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. They're paying for you that you know, they're paying for someone who's been there, seen it, and done it that can help them avoid make perhaps mistakes.
SPEAKER_00Especially there's a lot of teams that I work with, and the team to be blunt I prefer working with, are the teams that are taking on institutional capital for the first time. Yeah. So right, they've they've they've worked with a bank in the past, but that's probably been the limit. So actually having that ugly private equity investor sitting on their ball alongside them and actually understanding how to engage, how to get the most out of that relationship, how to work with them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a key, having sat that side of the fence myself for such a long time, yeah. Actually enabling the team to develop not supplanting that relationship, but supporting them and developing that relationship with their investor. Yeah, absolutely critical.
SPEAKER_01And how how much do you is a factor that you know clearly when you look at a chair or NED, experience, track record, etc., what about contacts and connections? Is that a factor as well? Is that an important sort of point of reference that you you know you've got someone who is actually connected to people that if they don't know the answer or they don't know the person or they can make introductions, is that a point of reference as well? That go completely. So your network, because I know your network is extremely strong, you've invested a lot of time building that up over the years.
SPEAKER_00But that that for me is my my possibly my my most valuable asset. Right. I I mean I did, I I I was I learned early on uh the power of relationships and invested, I've invested in my network throughout the you know the 35 plus years I've been involved in and hopefully maintain that relation that that network in the right way. So actually working out which parts of my network were most valuable for the business I'm working with and affecting those introductions and so on, making sure that they work is is is is key and critical.
Helping CEOs Without Getting Involved
SPEAKER_01I mean we could again we could do a whole nother podcast with you on time management because I don't know how you'd fit everything into one day. But tell me from your experience, how how can boards then um best support CEOs without interfering? You said being a good listener and the ability to influence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think what uh there's a couple of key one is setting very clear and agreeing very clear goals with the CEOs so that they really understand what's expected of them, yeah. Then giving them the time to actually get on and do that, and and and and what do I mean by that? It's twofold. One is and I don't know, you you you may know that for yourself, that a lot of the time you spend, and it's exaggerating, but firefighting, you're reacting to stuff, yeah. Things that you weren't expecting to happen as the CEO, oh crikey, okay, now I need to do this, do with that, which is great, and that's part of the job. But also, as a ball, finding a way of creating some space for the CEO to have some thinking time, some strategic thinking time, yeah, so they can actually step back and step away and and and think about what they do, what they do next. The other couple of things I I put into the mix on that, which I I really encourage the CEOs I work with. One is look, as a chair, there's an element of coaching and mentoring you do with the CEO. Yeah. But actually, I I I'm a big believer in external coaches or mentors that are nothing to do with the business, yeah. But it enables the CEO and other senior members of the teacher to actually take a step back and have a conversation, complete confidence that's not and no risk of compromise at all. So, do you do off-sites with them? Do you take them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also encourage them to build those relationships. The other thing I think, again, and and not all private equity investors support this, but as a chair, I try and encourage the CEOs out with to for themselves to have one external non-exec directorship to give them an insight into a completely different business channel and business opportunity. Right. Again, it just I think it helps develop their thinking, they can bring that back into their own business. I think more than one probably the risk of the being spread too thinly. Yes. But I'm I've seen and I and CEOs I've worked with that I've encouraged to do that. I think if you went and asked them, they'd come back and say, Yeah, that was great in terms of typical commitment is what, a day a month, though, so it's not for an NED or chair. Yeah, it's not it's it's not overly onerous. I mean there's there's prep time before and after you're right. But yeah, in terms of physical time spent outside, it's yeah, a day a day or two.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Um so I think look if if if A good CEO can't afford that time outside of the business where it's not just dedicated to that, they're learning from that and bringing that learning back into their own business. Then I think there's something probably not quite right there. Most good CEOs should be able to manage their time.
SPEAKER_01And the common mistakes that you see boards make, what your view on that?
SPEAKER_00That's another podcast. Yeah, really hard. Right. But I mean, no, no, there are. I mean, poor communications, too short-term focused, lack of strategic goals, lack of developing an appropriate culture, communication. Sadly, it can sound like everything's been perfect, and of course it hasn't been over those those years, and you see a lot that hasn't worked, and you and of course you learn from those. So yeah, no. Do you have a standard diagnostic that you do when you first join?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm assuming you do things like one-to-ones with everyone. Absolutely. I mean, do you have you got to the point where it's systematically you've got a set questionnaire that you will go through that helps you build up a picture?
SPEAKER_00Build up that picture again has to you have to adjust accordingly to a particular business and the particular team. Right. But yeah, no, there absolutely that helps for me. I find it hugely informative to set the framework for how I engage going forward.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And have you used, I mean, I again have you used any external testing platforms to again provide that assessment for you when you go in?
SPEAKER_00When I go in, no, because often when you're going in, a lot of that work has been done by the investor. Right. So you you want access to that. Yes. You you hope and always it's rare that oh, I can't think of occasion where that act I haven't been able to look at that. Right. And and as as you as I'm sure you know now, the the it's pretty sophisticated diligence around the assessment of the team that the private equity investor themselves undertakes. Yeah. So to access that and and more fully if you don't, yeah. Because when things do go wrong, if that diligence has been done, and I've sadly I've seen that, you go back and read or reread, and you thought actually it was there in black and white, you knew that was going to be a problem.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I put it on my shirt. I didn't take appropriate action or put the change in that was needed to address that, and that's come back to bite me. Interesting. So uh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The CEO position, obviously, as we talked about, is the most crucial. And you've already touched upon some of the qualities you would expect to see, namely that inspirational point, vision, that hand on the tiller, you know, really someone who's got a a read on the measure of the business and the market. What are the other qualities you would look for in a strong CEO, successful CEO?
SPEAKER_00I mean, high emotional intelligence, really to to without that, then I don't think I don't think any any good CEO I've worked with uh you know has to have that as really top priority. I think their ability to build a a strong dynamic and fellowship within the senior management team as well, bringing the cohesiveness to that team. Yeah. So the whether it's done through inspiration, through vision or through engagement or a combination of of all of those, yeah, to bring their team with them. Yeah. Um you can have a visionary leader, but if they can't bring the team along with them on that vision, then that's a that's another car crash waiting to happen. Yeah. So yeah, it's a di and it's a lonely job. I mean, it isn't you. It is. You know, who who can you confide in? It's it's there's not, you know, when we in when you're developing your career, you have your peers, you can speak to bounce ideas across. Yeah.
Chair Versus NED And Training
SPEAKER_01But suddenly when you're in the in the top job, the CEO role, the reason why you need a chair absolutely you can talk to in that regard. No, I I agree with you, and it is it is and not many people see that actually. Not plenty certainly that's that's that's been one of the challenges of CEO myself, is that but not not so much lack of appreciation, but understanding that actually it is quite lonely at the top, yeah, and that having people around you is so important, as you say. You're making difficult decisions, but you want a reference point on those, and and also yeah, the ability to you know, I mean, I sound like a politician, but please a hundred percent of the people a hundred percent of the time as a CEO is almost impossible. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Let's talk about chairs and NEDs, because clearly, obviously, that that that's that's your world now. Advice of people who want to become a chair and NED. What what's the right time for someone? I mean, to it's easy to uh to to a certain extent to go from to an NED position, a non-exec position, but NED then to chair is a different kettle of fish. But so the the standard transition is full-time job and in parallel to that, or immediately afterwards, as you did with LDC, take on two NED roles. Is that right? I mean what what what's the correct and then that path from NED, what what's the differential between an NED and a chair then?
SPEAKER_00Well, I thought huge, I think. I think huge. And I think the benefit, well, if you've been in a private equity environment as I was, I had the huge benefit working with uh some great inspirational chairs, I said. But if you if you haven't had that opportunity, I think becoming NED first and working with great chairs gives you as an insight into what good looks like and how you can adapt your own personality and skill based to that role. Where I have found it yeah, not worked to be blunt, or be more challenging, are those individuals that go straight from a CEO role to a chair role. Right. Um too much of a leap. Too much of a and and they've just they can't take that step back.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, you've got you've got to realise that the difference between the full-time role and the part-time role. And and there are chairs and the chairs I've worked with in in you know in the last 11 years where I've been an ed rather than a chair on a board, yeah, where I've seen that and and I hope I've done it and handled it in the right way, or I've had to take that aside and say, look, yeah, just you need to give the CEO some air here. Yeah. We'll give them some space. So I think yeah, take on an ed role too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00As the first step. As the first step. Yeah. And then and then take that learning into the chair role. Yeah. But the chair, look, the chair is a it's a hugely and highly responsible role. I know from a fiduciary point of view, whether you're a non-executive chair, it's broadly the same. Yeah. But in terms of responsibilities, yes, and and and and positioning and so on, the chair role is is I mean it's almost to a point your name is above the door with the CEO. It is, it is, and and and you you you you share that stress and challenge that the CEO is dealing with and and have to understand that. So um I it's it's not a role you should take on lightly. I think it could be hugely fulfilling, yeah. But it's it's very different from an uh an ed. But the neds also need to recognise that and need to recognise that they need to support the chair in that and not just sort of turn up, shuffle the papers. I mean, that team is as crucial as the leadership team within within an organisation. A lot of people do use the frame follow followership. And that's key. You you need to provide that support to the as an ed to the chair as well, so they don't feel isolated or feel they have to come and ask you to do something, you should be looking to take some of that burden off the chair. Great.
SPEAKER_01There's no training programme for this, is there? I've not I mean uh you know, a lot a number of business schools will run modules based on an MBA, etc., as well. Are there sort of programs out there that that are that help? I mean, have you seen any that you sort of raise?
SPEAKER_00So the business schools run the I've worked in the past with the the FT. They have they run a diploma, an object diploma. Right. Uh uh and I I get called in as an old lag to give them some more stories and so on as part of that. Is that good? It's great. People I've met participating really good and and and kept in contact with some of those since, and they found that really helpful and worthwhile. Yeah. Uh and I think some of the some of the business schools will offer something similar as well. But you're right, there's not a huge amount out there, it's really about learning from your experience and learning from other people.
Leadership Lessons And Real Networks
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about sort of some of the lessons and learnings that you've had. What what are the biggest leadership lessons from your career over the years?
SPEAKER_00Never assume anything. I mean it it's make sure your team are with you. Yeah. Um and and just however you best do that, and part of that's done obviously within the work environment, but invest the time outside the work environment as well, yeah, to really understand whether they are with you, the ha you have their support, if they've got any concerns, they might not want to voice them in a formal environment. Yeah. So invest the time outside of that formal environment, whatever works with the the individuals involved, and really know that they're with you. Because I've made mistakes. I've I've I've thought, you know, you know it was clear about the direction I thought we needed to head in, and I thought the team were with me, only to find they weren't.
SPEAKER_01Right. Uh and you can underestimate just how crucial that sort of beer after work type scenario is.
SPEAKER_00You know, that social setting, really just getting out of the office and and also understanding your team and understanding their situation outside of work as well, yeah, and being able to empathize with that. Yeah. Because you bring your home life into the office. You can't not do that. And unless you really understand and see what challenges then stresses they might be under in that, then it enables you to hopefully engage appropriately.
SPEAKER_01No, I agree. And that assumption piece I completely identify with. I think that that that point as well, sort of you know, the assumption really does catch people out, you know. I think, I guess. No, actually find out, define. Um here's a question. What what might you tell your younger self? Um, who's starting out in private equity today? Now, obviously the market's changed dramatically, but what would you tell your younger self now if you were starting in private equity today?
SPEAKER_00I'd I'd uh a few things I'd think I'd say uh key is to never never stop learning. Yeah. Never stop but keep an open mind and and and embrace new new opportunities and and and new and new developments. I'd say never be shocked by anything. You can be surprised by something, yeah, but try not to be shocked. There are still things that I'd never thought I'd see that I've seen and situations you've had to deal with that you never thought you'd have to deal with, um but but keep your cool and be prepared for the unexpected. Uh and and I think that's also maintain your curiosity. I mean just just be quizzical, just yeah, just challenge. And I think we've touched already, and I hopefully I did embrace this pretty early on, but the value of a network to support you in your own development career, to support the businesses you work with, absolutely fundamental.
SPEAKER_01And that and just on that point, that building the network in person, not virtual, right? As you say, you know, be you know, pressing the flesh, that aspect of it. You know, the generation today, and I think it's one of the challenges I face to a point now, certainly post-COVID, is this getting out getting people out from behind a screen. You know, that you know, team, Zoom or whatever isn't the way you build rapport, empathy, and trust. It's not the way you build that network, it's not how you build that that connectivity, is it?
SPEAKER_00No, and you have to do it, and again, things have changed. The whole idea we're all going down the pub, yeah. That was that was a child of whenever whichever decade that was. But but whatever works with you and your peer group, do that. Go and spend time with them in whatever the right environment is, whether it's competitive gaming or whatever it is, it's the right environment. Yeah, go and do that. But that network is invaluable. And look, I I go back to the time when I started with 3i. So I was at lunch yesterday. The three other three people at the lunch were three colleagues from 3I. Got dinner in six weeks' time, two guys who were my mentors when I first joined 3I. I mean, that that you know, I mean, it's just a couple of examples, but that yeah, that that's a network that's endured for 40 years, those relationships have so powerful and they've helped me out so much, and I've learned a lot, but they've been so helpful and so supportive.
SPEAKER_01But I also assume that well, I I I would imagine these are people that you could pick up the phone to at any time and say, I need a favour.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they would. And if you've treated them properly throughout that time, they know you wouldn't be asking for that favour unless you really needed it. And and that's and that's the that's actually the joy that you know you've managed those very correctly when you do have an ask and people respond, but also respond promptly to you, yeah. Then that's you think, okay.
SPEAKER_01And that's how the world works, isn't it? That quick pro quo sort of environment.
SPEAKER_00That's one thing AI, I think, will be I mean, one thing AI won't replace immediately anyway, is that whole that whole interpersonal relationship.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. So powerful.
Final Reflections And Thanks
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Tim, brilliant to talk to you today. I mean, your experience, your career history is phenomenal. Thank you. It's been great getting to know you over the last uh few months now. But I mean, thank you for sharing your story with us and your insight with us. And um, thank you for joining us as well. And look forward to the next episode with you.